~Following Him!!!~

And yet I thought the list sounded fairly liberal to me for the most part! I love the list. I can only hope and pray there is someone on the ballot like that.

Sounds liberal, thats funny.

Actually, I think the list taps stuff from both sides of the political spectrum. So if anything, I would say it is pretty moderate.

I was being quite serious, Dan.

Dan, how would you feel if there was a person who met all of those things, but number 3? Could/would you still vote for them?

I agree, it is extremely moderate (how’s that for an oxymoron!)

It’s as moderate as you can get!

I love the list Todd! I will be referring to it as we go through the next 2 years!

I would love a president who tried to change the hearts of Americans to pro-life. Pres. Bush is pro-life and did stop some of the useless killings. So yes I did and would vote for some one who is not actively changing people hearts.

Lets take a look at true democrat liberals in action. Lets take a look at Detroit. They have had a liberal mayor for the last 40 years. Have had a liberal council, education board and heads of departments, all complete failures. Only 25% for juniors entering high school graduate on time. Detroit is always in the top 3 for killings and losing people. Let me explain liberalism, it is never coming up with a solution but to keep people in a state of helplessness so they always depend on the liberal. Detroit along with liberal led cities are in complete shambles. If you want a complete realistic understanding of liberals read Ann Coulters new book Godless, The Church of Liberalism. She has over 350 references on specific quotes from these lefties so we can not say she is making this extreme stuff up. I work in a very liberal place. I have shown them liberals say and vote are two different things. They are amazed when they see facts. It is also a lot of fun exposing these fakes.

If you want to go down this list I can show you how the conservative is the one who is looking for solutions and have answers but are blocked but the libs. Give me the name of a lib and what they have accomplished from this list. I love taking specifics.

As far as moderates, these are the confused crowd. These are “open-minded” gang. They are above the left or right. They are the ones who can compromise. How can one be moderate on abortion or homosexuality?? The mod believes 1+1=how do you feel about this? Not fact. I get my opinion after following the politicians and people I come in contact with.

If you want a realistic understanding of liberals, I think talking to us in person would be a lot more effective than reading a book by Ann Coulter. Find out what we are really about.

In fact, I don’t judge the conservatives by the talking heads. I try to get to know them and find out what they really stand for. It’s sure a lot more educating. Of course it’s a little more work as you are forced to examine what you believe by having a dialog instead of being talked at so you can be entertained.

Slinging insults seems to be the national pastime, and it hasn’t gotten us anywhere. But I suppose it’s easier to create divisions than it is to build bridges.

Cathy

I totally agree with you. Talk to the libs to understand how they think. I have done this for 8 years. I work for the big 3 as an hourly person. I work with second and third generation democrats and lib’s. When I first started employment, a couple of guys challenged me on Promise Keepers and the Disney boycott. I was able to defend with talking points but got my butt kicked with challenging questions. That is when I started studding both politics and my Christian beliefs. In the beginning I was intimated, but today I look to be challenged. I debate both women and men, black and white or who ever has an issue with what I believe. Each and every conversation are civil and respectful. I have won over almost every one I have spoken to with FACTS. I would show them how the lib’s voted, no way of spinning it, just the persons vote. People could not believe how they have been deceived. I have been called a young punk, stupid and ignorant buy some older lib’s . Along with other words used on me I do not say and will not write. That is how I know when I am winning a conversation with a lib, it’s when the insults start flowing. That is my queue to end it but I leave with victory.

One African American I debated almost daily would be a lot of fun. I would show him facts but he would just dismissed them.
I guess the biggest issue I have with the lib’s and democrats is dishonesty. From the war in Iraq to taxes to morality. You name anything and they are not telling the complete truth and truth at all. As far as the Coulter book, it confirmed on a national level what I have experienced on a local level. I do not mind the lib’s but be honest and vote your rhetoric.

Dan,

What if that person not only didn’t line up with number 3, which President Bush does somewhat, but instead was pro-choice and met all of the other qualifications. Could/would you vote for them?

And how about number 5? Are the Republicans really taking the lead on that one and doing it?

How about number 1? The Republicans voting record are not very good on that one. Along with number 2, 5, 6, 8, or 11?

Honestly, the Republicans fall very short when you look at the FACTS in those areas. I have been a Republican all of my life and I feel that they have abandoned their own base and I feel like President Bush has failed in his promises that he made when I voted for him both times. Not all of them, but many of them.

You ridicule the moderates, but quite honestly the moderates are more like the Republican party was back when Reagan was President. And I have news for you. Jesus was not and is not a Republican despite the popular myth purported in a majority of American churches.

I hope that you profess your faith in Christ as vigorous as profess your Republican faith.

Todd,

The only thing that gets me more excited than politics is taking about Christ.

You have me on the first question. I do not see a republican let alone a democrat that even comes close to anything to do with Christ. The closest I believe we will get is Newt Gingrich. I do mean the closest is Newt.

I would love to address the “Jesus is not a republican or democrat”. I have heard this from pastors and people who want to be politically correct. Here is why I think Jesus is a conservative and would vote conservative.

Abortion
Internet Gambling Prohibition Act
Broadcast Decency Act
religious liberty
Fetal Farming Ban
Stem Cell Therapeutic and Research Act
Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act
defunding of a $300 million grant to build a gay-lesbian center in Los Angeles
Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
Child Pornography Prevention Act
Child Custody Protection Act
Abstinence & education
No condoms @ school
no gay marriage
No gay adoption
No hate crime legislation
No gay school support groups
Library internet filters
Do away with pornography
marriage protection act
No sex ed in school
Pro ten commandments
Religious freedom in public
Abortion counseling
Keep ban on international abortion support
Adoption
Adoption not for homosexuals
No assisted suicide
Proper Bioethics
Capital punishment
No cloning
No euthanasia
No morning after pill (RU-486)
Parental notification for under aged abortion
No partial birth abortion
No stem cell research
Feeding all people

These are a few issues that conservatives and I do believe Jesus would agree with. So based on this list, Jesus would vote for a “religious right winger”. I can not say that the republicans in the race today Jesus would be to excited about, But compared to the democratic field, it would be very easy choice. I would love to see a list that democrats or moderates support that Jesus would be excited about. I will address your other list this weekend. I do believe you will be surprise.

Dan,

We could honestly get into a battle of lists and I could show how some of the the things in your list are really not help by the Republican party and how there are some things that the Democrats or even moderates are closer to in terms of fulfilling things that I believe are close to the heart of God. But honestly, I think it is fruitless. I think that doing what we can to bring heaven to earth is much more important.

And I think just blindly voting Republican, just because you think “Jesus would vote for a ‘religious right winger’”, is pretty foolish. After all, Jesus did pose some pretty liberal thoughts in his day and rebelled against the authority. Not to mention the fact that he always seemed to reject the politics of the day and instead went about doing the will of the Father. Please, don’t misconstrue that and think that I am saying we shouldn’t vote. But I am saying that I think there is more important things to turn our focus towards.

BTW, I was not being politically correct by saying that Jesus is not a Republican or a Democrat. I was stating a fact and until you can prove to me with Biblical facts that Jesus was and is a Republican, I think that it is just foolishness. I am first, foremost and only a Christian and my relationship with Christ is and will effect the way I vote next year. And my vote will go to the person that I feel meets the things I am finding most important to the heart of God with the list I gave.

Dan,

Do you not realize that …by the example set in the New Testament … if it was today’s time…

Jesus would be seen … sitting with the gays, having dinner with the divorced and the broken family’s … he’d be talking with those who’ve had abortions … and on Sunday morning’s he’d be walking down under the bridges and over passes spreading the love of His Father.

He would not be in the churches … coddling us with cliques and cliches ..telling us that we’re right to stay in our boxes and not be touched by the poison that is the world.

We would not know if he was republican or democrat. I would bet he would vote …but I would also bet that he would keep that information to himself …and then give a vague answer … like when he was asked about paying taxes. Rather than just saying YES you should pay taxes … he said render to ceasars what is Ceasars and to God what is God’s … He’d simply let us know that it is our responsibility to do what God has given us to do.

One thing is sure … it would be the sick, and the lost and the worn out and those that need Him that he would be ministering to … and it would the pious religous people make it impossible for the lost to come to him that he would save his ire for.

Good points, PK. And I would venture to guess that by hanging out with that crowd He probably would end being associated with them by the religious people of today, just like he was then.

Internet Gambling Prohibition
Act of 1999
(H.R. 3125) R-201 along with D- 115 pass this bill
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2006-363

Broadcast Decency Enforcement Act
R-228 along with D-161 bill passes
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2005-35

Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act
R-223 along with D-98
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2006-401

WASHINGTON (August 14, 2006) — Both houses of Congress have passed bills to protect the rights of parents to be notified before an abortion is performed on a minor daughter – but Senate Democratic leaders, led by Minority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nv.), have thrown up an extraordinary procedural obstacle in an attempt to prevent the bill from becoming law during the final weeks of the 109th Congress.

We must remember people are first with Christ everything else is a far second. These are people issues. Do not listen to the talking points but look how they vote or what they try to block. One question I ask my debating opponents is “Give me a reason to support and vote for your candidate”. could not give me examples to at least considering a moderate or lib? “Blindly voting”, I gave you almost 40 issue that the conservatives voted on. Hardly blind voting. I know how candidates vote.
Harry Reid

Reid Voted Initially For A Substitute Bill That Would Have “Gutted” The Partial Birth Abortion Ban. (Fred Barnes, Op-Ed, “When Harry Met Roe,” The Weekly Standard, 12/27/04; S. 1692, CQ Vote #335: Motion Agreed To 61-38: R 50-3; D 10-35; I 1-0, 10/20/99, Reid Voted Nay; S. 3, CQ Vote #46: Approved 60-38: R 47-4; D 12-34; I 1-0, 3/12/03, Reid Voted Nay)

Reid Supported Legislation Watering Down The Laci Peterson Law. (H.R. 1997, CQ Vote #61: Rejected 49-50: R 4-47; D 44-3; I 1-0, 3/25/04, Reid Voted Yea)

Reid Voted To Overturn Reinstatement Of Mexico City Policy, Which Bars Funds From Being Given To Overseas Organizations That Perform Or Promote Abortions. (S. 925, CQ Vote #267: Rejected 43-53: R 42-9; D 1-43; I 0-1, 7/9/03, Reid Voted Nay)

Reid Voted Against Marriage Penalty Relief At Least 20 Times. (S. Con. Res. 13, CQ Vote # 178: Rejected 31-69: R 31-23; D 0-46, 5/23/95, Reid Voted Nay; S. 1357, CQ Vote #552: Motion Agreed To 53-46: R 50-3; D 3-43, 10/27/95, Reid Voted Nay; H.R. 2491, CQ Vote #556: Passed 52-47: R 52-1; D 0-46, 10/28/95, Reid Voted Nay; H.R. 2491, CQ Vote #584: Motion Agreed To 52-47: R 52-1; D 0-46, 11/18/95, Reid Voted Nay; S. 1415, CQ Vote #154: Rejected 48-50: R 5-49; D 43-1, 6/10/98, Reid Voted Yea; S. 2312, CQ Vote #242: Motion Rejected 48-51: R 4-50; D 44-1, 7/29/98, Reid Voted Yea; S. 1429, CQ Vote #230: Rejected 46-54: R 45-9; D 0-45; I 1-0, 7/29/99, Reid Voted Nay; S. 1429 CQ Vote #247: Passed 57-43: R 52-2; D 4-41; I 1-0, 7/30/99, Reid Voted Nay; H.R. 2488, CQ Vote #261: Adopted 50-49: R 49-4; D 0-45; I 1-0, 8/5/99, Reid Voted Nay; S. Con. Res. 101, CQ Vote #68: Rejected 44-56: R 5-50; D 39

Pelosi

Despite Widespread Public Support, Rep. Pelosi Voted At Least Three Times Against Unborn Victims Of Violence Act (Laci’s Law). (H.R. 1997, CQ Vote #31: Passed 254-163: R 207-13; D 47-149; I 0-1, 2/26/04, Pelosi Voted Nay; H.R. 503, CQ Vote #89: Passed 252-172: R 198-21; D 53-150; I 1-1, 4/26/01, Pelosi Voted Nay; H.R. 2436, CQ Vote #465: Passed 254-172: R 198-21; D 56-150; I 0-1, 9/30/99, Pelosi Voted Nay)

Rep. Pelosi Voted At Least Three Times In Favor Of Allowing FDA To Use Federal Funds To Test, Develop And/Or Approve Drugs That Chemically Induce Abortion. (H.R. 4101, CQ Vote #260: Adopted 223-202: R 188-37; D 35-164; I 0-1, 6/24/98, Pelosi Voted Nay; H.R. 1906, CQ Vote #173: Adopted 217-214: R 181-40; D 36-173; I 0-1, 6/8/99, Pelosi Voted Nay; H.R. 4461, CQ Vote #373: Rejected 182-187: R 149-34; D 32-152; I 1-1, 7/10/00, Pelosi Voted Nay)

Rep. Pelosi Has Voted For Higher Gas Taxes At Least 5 Times. (H.R. 3566, CQ Vote #338: Passed 343-83: R 101-61; D 241-22; I 1-0, 10/23/91, Pelosi Voted Yea; H.R. 2264, CQ Vote #199: Passed 219-314: R 0-175; D 218-38; I 1-0, 5/27/93, Pelosi Voted Yea; H.R. 2264, CQ Vote #406: Adopted 218-216: R 0-175; D 217-41; I 1-0, 8/5/93, Pelosi Voted Yea; H.R. 3415, CQ Vote #182: Passed 301-108: R 208-15; D 92-93; I 1-0, 5/21/96, Pelosi Voted Nay; H.R. 2400, CQ Vote #97: Rejected 98-318: R 82-138; D 16-179; I 0-1, 4/1/98, Pelosi Voted Nay

Rep. Pelosi Received A 100 Percent Rating From NARAL Pro-Choice America In 2005. (NARAL Website, http://www.naral.org, Accessed 4/26/06)

Rep. Pelosi Received A Zero Percent Rating From National Right To Life Committee In 2005. (National Right To Life Committee Website, http://www.capwiz.com, Accessed 4/26/06)

So much for “blind voting”. Enough said!

First, it’s a given, when Jesus came into contact with anyone, he came into contact with a sinner. That is not up debate or what we are discussing.

Second, I have experienced when I start taking specifics with mod’s or lib’s they dance around that specific subject. Mod’s & lib’s love talking in general. Example, to feed the world, what a noble cause(feel good stuff). When asked how and what plans to do this, if they don’t want to tax me to death, they call names like narrow minded for thinking small. It is their way of saying “I have no clue”. Conservatives have specifics. I will say it again, this has been my experience.

Third, I have taken my list from a so called “extreme right wing” web site. These are the issue the extreme right wing are pushing, we own these issues. I am sure that mod’s or even a couple of lib’s have voted on the above issues and on my list but that is the few and far in between. Again, I say just give me a couple of issues that we can verify with scripture that the right wing have not brought up or attempting to solve.

Fourth, being a Christian we try to live life the way Christ would of, that includes voting. Since Christ never voted (He never had the freedom in those days), we must look at the issues and vote for the candidate that would be both electable and our issue oriented. As a group, that is the conservative base of the republican party. I have shown you just a fraction of the majority leaders voting positions. The reason I ask for a list is to make the person I am communicating with to think. What are my top issues and who votes for them. That is when people see just how they have been deceived. Any one who is calling for a disconnect with the religious right are distancing themselves from issues I have listed. What I have found the mod’s & lib’s want to boycott Wal-Mart, raise minimum wage, forgive debt to foreign countries and put Al Gore’s movie suggestion in place. These Christian have been fooled. Remember Christ was all about people everything else comes in a far second.

I have no problems disconnecting from the religious right and connecting with Christ and letting Him be my guide and not politicians.

You have all very valid points and I love how you try to play on emotions and the heart strings of Christians to draw your own conclusions. Yes, you do also use facts but you use emotions the same way you accuse Democrats of doing.

Let me ask you one question, Dan. If I were to research out voting records and everything and using my list, I found that the person I felt met a majority of the things on my list was a Democrat and so I voted for them, would you still think that I was a Christian?

Dan,

I love how you pointed out that you do not vote blindly, but the examples you gave are of two of the most liberal democrats available.

I am also curious as to what you think of my most recent post, “Should Churches Be Green?”

And I am also wondering how it is that you know Kent Chevalier, because I noticed that that is how you have stumbled across my blog.

Todd,
This is what I’m saying. For 10 years I have been looking at the voting records for both parties. On 95% of the social issues the republican voting record comes the closest, not perfect but closest to Christians. If retired Democratic Senator Zell Miller ran for president today against today’s republican candidates I would for him. We must also remember what ever party is in charge would push the parties agenda. So we must also consider the party I am voting for. You can judge the a party buy the leadership. That is why I gave you the info I did. The Dem’s VOTED Reid & Poloski in, that is where they want to go with policies.

Using emotions, not at all. If we debated one on one, I am all facts. I have found emotions got me no where.

Can you give me a good Christian left organization that I can at least take a look at? I would be able to give you a couple of dozen.

Here is a African economist.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,363663,00.html

Can a Country change from poor to growth??
http://www.heritage.org/Research/WorldwideFreedom/bg1958.cfm

Great article that would really help the poor.
http://www.townhall.com/search.aspx